https://sebokwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Scope_of_the_SEBoK&feed=atom&action=historyTalk:Scope of the SEBoK - Revision history2024-03-28T13:24:20ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.35.13https://sebokwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Scope_of_the_SEBoK&diff=40881&oldid=prevBkcase: moved Talk:Scope and Context of the SEBoK to Talk:Scope of the SEBoK: Final change for SEBoK v. 1.0 for clarity - discussed at WS XI (division of SE-specific vs. SEBoK-specific materials in Part 1). Approved DHO and ABP 8/282012-08-28T18:28:58Z<p>moved <a href="/wiki/Talk:Scope_and_Context_of_the_SEBoK" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:Scope and Context of the SEBoK">Talk:Scope and Context of the SEBoK</a> to <a href="/wiki/Talk:Scope_of_the_SEBoK" title="Talk:Scope of the SEBoK">Talk:Scope of the SEBoK</a>: Final change for SEBoK v. 1.0 for clarity - discussed at WS XI (division of SE-specific vs. SEBoK-specific materials in Part 1). Approved DHO and ABP 8/28</p>
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<td colspan="1" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 18:28, 28 August 2012</td>
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</td></tr></table>Bkcasehttps://sebokwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Scope_of_the_SEBoK&diff=30199&oldid=prevBkcase: moved Talk:Scope of the SEBoK to Talk:Scope and Context of the SEBoK: Update for 0.75.2012-02-10T18:04:57Z<p>moved <a href="/wiki/Talk:Scope_of_the_SEBoK" title="Talk:Scope of the SEBoK">Talk:Scope of the SEBoK</a> to <a href="/wiki/Talk:Scope_and_Context_of_the_SEBoK" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:Scope and Context of the SEBoK">Talk:Scope and Context of the SEBoK</a>: Update for 0.75.</p>
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</td></tr></table>Bkcasehttps://sebokwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Scope_of_the_SEBoK&diff=27911&oldid=prevWikiexpert: Replaced content with "{{Review Instructions}}"2011-11-06T23:49:56Z<p>Replaced content with "{{Review Instructions}}"</p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Please provide your feedback on this article by responding to the specific discussion points below. In order to respond, please click "Reply" under the appropriate discussion thread. Feel free to read the comments of other reviewers as well (you may also respond directly to these comments). Please note that each article has a place for “Open Discussion” – please place any comments not related to the specific discussion points into this thread.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">As the BKCASE author team develops the next SEBoK increment, they will provide an adjudication comment for each ‘‘thread’’ in the discussion – not each individual comment.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">'''Note: We value community feedback and assume that all reviewers will respond in a professional manner. However, if any reviewer uses any form of profanity or consistently posts inflammatory comments or spam messages, that reviewer’s IP address will be blocked. To report any such problems, please email [mailto:bkcase@stevens.edu bkcase@stevens.edu]. '''</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
</table>Wikiexperthttps://sebokwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Scope_of_the_SEBoK&diff=22171&oldid=prevBkcase at 14:45, 18 September 20112011-09-18T14:45:43Z<p></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:45, 18 September 2011</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>As the BKCASE author team develops the next SEBoK increment, they will provide an adjudication comment for each ‘‘thread’’ in the discussion – not each individual comment.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>As the BKCASE author team develops the next SEBoK increment, they will provide an adjudication comment for each ‘‘thread’’ in the discussion – not each individual comment.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Note: We value community feedback and assume that all reviewers will respond in a professional manner. However, if any reviewer uses any form of profanity or consistently posts inflammatory comments or spam messages, that reviewer’s IP address will be blocked. To report any such problems, please email bkcase@stevens.edu. '''</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Note: We value community feedback and assume that all reviewers will respond in a professional manner. However, if any reviewer uses any form of profanity or consistently posts inflammatory comments or spam messages, that reviewer’s IP address will be blocked. To report any such problems, please email <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">[mailto:</ins>bkcase@stevens.edu <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">bkcase@stevens.edu]</ins>. '''</div></td></tr>
</table>Bkcasehttps://sebokwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Scope_of_the_SEBoK&diff=22170&oldid=prevBkcase at 14:45, 18 September 20112011-09-18T14:45:19Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Please provide your feedback on this article by responding to the specific discussion points below. In order to respond, please click "Reply" under the appropriate discussion thread. Feel free to read the comments of other reviewers as well (you may also respond directly to these comments). Please note that each article has a place for “Open Discussion” – please place any comments not related to the specific discussion points into this thread.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Please provide your feedback on this article by responding to the specific discussion points below. In order to respond, please click "Reply" under the appropriate discussion thread. Feel free to read the comments of other reviewers as well (you may also respond directly to these comments). Please note that each article has a place for “Open Discussion” – please place any comments not related to the specific discussion points into this thread.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>As the BKCASE author team develops SEBoK <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">0.75</del>, they will provide an adjudication comment for each ‘‘thread’’ in the discussion – not each individual comment.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>As the BKCASE author team develops <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">the next </ins>SEBoK <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">increment</ins>, they will provide an adjudication comment for each ‘‘thread’’ in the discussion – not each individual comment.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Note: We value community feedback and assume that all reviewers will respond in a professional manner. However, if any reviewer uses any form of profanity or consistently posts inflammatory comments or spam messages, that reviewer’s IP address will be blocked. To report any such problems, please email bkcase@stevens.edu. '''</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Note: We value community feedback and assume that all reviewers will respond in a professional manner. However, if any reviewer uses any form of profanity or consistently posts inflammatory comments or spam messages, that reviewer’s IP address will be blocked. To report any such problems, please email bkcase@stevens.edu. '''</div></td></tr>
</table>Bkcasehttps://sebokwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Scope_of_the_SEBoK&diff=21507&oldid=prevBkcase at 19:16, 16 September 20112011-09-16T19:16:57Z<p></p>
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<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Please provide your feedback on this article by responding to the specific discussion points below. In order to respond, please click "Reply" under the appropriate discussion thread. Feel free to read the comments of other reviewers as well (you may also respond directly to these comments). Please note that each article has a place for “Open Discussion” – please place any comments not related to the specific discussion points into this thread.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Please provide your feedback on this article by responding to the specific discussion points below. In order to respond, please click "Reply" under the appropriate discussion thread. Feel free to read the comments of other reviewers as well (you may also respond directly to these comments). Please note that each article has a place for “Open Discussion” – please place any comments not related to the specific discussion points into this thread.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
</table>Bkcasehttps://sebokwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Scope_of_the_SEBoK&diff=21506&oldid=prevBkcase at 19:16, 16 September 20112011-09-16T19:16:39Z<p></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 19:16, 16 September 2011</td>
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<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''Review Instructions'''</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Please provide your feedback on this article by responding to the specific discussion points below. In order to respond, please click "Reply" under the appropriate discussion thread. Feel free to read the comments of other reviewers as well (you may also respond directly to these comments). Please note that each article has a place for “Open Discussion” – please place any comments not related to the specific discussion points into this thread.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">As the BKCASE author team develops SEBoK 0.75, they will provide an adjudication comment for each ‘‘thread’’ in the discussion – not each individual comment.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''Note: We value community feedback and assume that all reviewers will respond in a professional manner. However, if any reviewer uses any form of profanity or consistently posts inflammatory comments or spam messages, that reviewer’s IP address will be blocked. To report any such problems, please email bkcase@stevens.edu. '''</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Bkcasehttps://sebokwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Scope_of_the_SEBoK&diff=20387&oldid=prevJgercken: /* SE scope - "understand" versus "do" */2011-09-15T00:49:23Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">SE scope - "understand" versus "do"</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">== SE scope - "understand" versus "do" ==</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Hillary S:</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I like this 3-part Venn diagram.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">We need more finesse on the relevance of natural systems to SE. While we do not "engineer" natural systems, the delivery of the intended benefit of an engineered system depends on its successful integration with natural (particularly ecological) and social systems. Also, as we attempt to engineer increasingly complex open interconnected systems, our understanding of how such systems will behave - and therefore how to design them so they are likely to be successful - can be improved by an understanding of how complex natural and social systems behave: there are some characteristics and systemic behaviours (and therefore limitations and opportunities) that ALL systems have in common, whether natural, social, engineered or all three. If SE's are to be responsible for successful system outcomes, they need to understand these universal system characteristics, behaviours and pathologies.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Scott J:</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Some important points need to be made in this section:</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">(1) It should not be inferred that just because many disciplines are mentioned in the SEBoK (for example, safety, reliability, etc) that does not mean that these disciplines are "part" of systems engineering. All it means is that the system methodology should be applied to those disciplines as well as any other part of the design.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">2) The scope of the SEBoK is larget than many previous refences for systems engineering. Previous referemces often focus solely on product systems that are ordered and non-complex. The increased scope of the SEBoK also includes Emterprise Systems Engineering and Service Systems Engineering. In addition, the SEBoK is not limited to ordered systems. It also discusses structural [complexity (glossary)) and non-deterministic systems. Another example of the expanded scope of Systems Engineering is the discussion of Soft Systems Methodology (SSM).</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Tom Hilburn</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">1. Figure 1 - The Real Number System (numeric symbols, axioms, theorems) is not a Natural System - it is a man-made system used to model the real world.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">2. Suggest deleting the sentence "SE can enable the realization of successful systems, but cannot ..." - sounds a little defensive.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">3. Figure 2 does not include some topics (like schedule, cost, and risk monitroing) in SE, but these topics are disussed later in Part 3.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">4. Suggest the definition of SE include a link to Systems engineering (SE) (glossary) and be consitent with it.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Judith D:</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I also like the venn diagram, but in line with Hillary's comment above with natural systems, I thinbk we need to finesse the discussion of social systms. It may be worth noting, after the 'socio-technical' materials in the SoS section, that understanding the social and organizational context where a new system or SoS is employed is critical to the engingineer of that system. I believe the discussion here is essential consistent with the SoS dsections.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">However, this doenot seem to be consistent with the 'Enterprise Systems' section (another section I am reviewing'. There it says that Enterprise Engineering is applying engineering to the enterprise (defined as an organization) which is in fact a social system. This is not consistent with this discussion. Something needs to be done to reconcile this.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Garry Roedler:</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The following are additional things to consider for this topic:</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">1. Add links to the reference parts of the SEBoK in the discussion. </del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">2. The INCOSE SE Handbook is listed as a citation. Should it also be a Primary Reference? </del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">3. Consider adding a short discussion regarding the scope with respect to Product, Service, and Enterprise systems. Other than this and the discussion of others regarding the linkages to non-engineered systems, the content is fairly solid. </del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">4. Add links to glossary terms for Engineered Systems, Natural Systems, and Social Systems, as well as any other key terms. Currently, there are no links to any glossary terms.</del></div></td><td colspan="2"> </td></tr>
</table>Jgerckenhttps://sebokwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Scope_of_the_SEBoK&diff=13250&oldid=prevGroedler at 09:29, 23 August 20112011-08-23T09:29:00Z<p></p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div>== SE scope - "understand" versus "do" ==<br />
<br />
Hillary S:<br />
<br />
I like this 3-part Venn diagram.<br />
<br />
We need more finesse on the relevance of natural systems to SE. While we do not "engineer" natural systems, the delivery of the intended benefit of an engineered system depends on its successful integration with natural (particularly ecological) and social systems. Also, as we attempt to engineer increasingly complex open interconnected systems, our understanding of how such systems will behave - and therefore how to design them so they are likely to be successful - can be improved by an understanding of how complex natural and social systems behave: there are some characteristics and systemic behaviours (and therefore limitations and opportunities) that ALL systems have in common, whether natural, social, engineered or all three. If SE's are to be responsible for successful system outcomes, they need to understand these universal system characteristics, behaviours and pathologies.<br />
<br />
Scott J:<br />
<br />
Some important points need to be made in this section:<br />
<br />
(1) It should not be inferred that just because many disciplines are mentioned in the SEBoK (for example, safety, reliability, etc) that does not mean that these disciplines are "part" of systems engineering. All it means is that the system methodology should be applied to those disciplines as well as any other part of the design.<br />
<br />
2) The scope of the SEBoK is larget than many previous refences for systems engineering. Previous referemces often focus solely on product systems that are ordered and non-complex. The increased scope of the SEBoK also includes Emterprise Systems Engineering and Service Systems Engineering. In addition, the SEBoK is not limited to ordered systems. It also discusses structural [complexity (glossary)) and non-deterministic systems. Another example of the expanded scope of Systems Engineering is the discussion of Soft Systems Methodology (SSM).<br />
<br />
Tom Hilburn<br />
<br />
1. Figure 1 - The Real Number System (numeric symbols, axioms, theorems) is not a Natural System - it is a man-made system used to model the real world.<br />
<br />
2. Suggest deleting the sentence "SE can enable the realization of successful systems, but cannot ..." - sounds a little defensive.<br />
<br />
3. Figure 2 does not include some topics (like schedule, cost, and risk monitroing) in SE, but these topics are disussed later in Part 3.<br />
<br />
4. Suggest the definition of SE include a link to Systems engineering (SE) (glossary) and be consitent with it.<br />
<br />
<br />
Judith D:<br />
<br />
I also like the venn diagram, but in line with Hillary's comment above with natural systems, I thinbk we need to finesse the discussion of social systms. It may be worth noting, after the 'socio-technical' materials in the SoS section, that understanding the social and organizational context where a new system or SoS is employed is critical to the engingineer of that system. I believe the discussion here is essential consistent with the SoS dsections.<br />
<br />
However, this doenot seem to be consistent with the 'Enterprise Systems' section (another section I am reviewing'. There it says that Enterprise Engineering is applying engineering to the enterprise (defined as an organization) which is in fact a social system. This is not consistent with this discussion. Something needs to be done to reconcile this.<br />
<br />
Garry Roedler:<br />
<br />
The following are additional things to consider for this topic:<br />
1. Add links to the reference parts of the SEBoK in the discussion. <br />
2. The INCOSE SE Handbook is listed as a citation. Should it also be a Primary Reference? <br />
3. Consider adding a short discussion regarding the scope with respect to Product, Service, and Enterprise systems. Other than this and the discussion of others regarding the linkages to non-engineered systems, the content is fairly solid. <br />
4. Add links to glossary terms for Engineered Systems, Natural Systems, and Social Systems, as well as any other key terms. Currently, there are no links to any glossary terms.</div>Groedler